Hello Everyone. In this post, I am going to discuss some of the controversial aspects of TLOU2'S story (based on my time on Twitter and YT) and defend its approach for 6 of them then talk a little about some less common stuff. I hope that you'll be respectful and understanding of my points. I hope this will be a comprehensive post for people who both like and dislike the game to talk about. Warning for Spoilers about the whole game
My quick opinion on the game: it's good. Not a masterpiece but a solid if simplistic title with a good story. It's a 8/10 for me (which is the same ranking I'd give to TLOU1 funnily. I loved the story but felt the gameplay was too limited and simplistix and thus got boring at times). It's not ND's best game overall (Jak 1 gets that) but it's in the top 5 and well made.
Let's get started. This is gonna be a long one.
-1 Joel's death.
A lot of people are upset that Joel dies. And does so so early on in such a brutal way. And that this is somehow very bad.
My counterpoints are why?
From a writing perspective, Joel is neither a sacred figure nor is he a superhero. There's nothing that says he must live.
In addition, works like Game of Thrones sold themselves that main characters will die and nobody is safe. So why is the very idea of Joel's death such a no-no. If anything, you'd think the guy who killed am entire hospital full of people, took away humanity's one shot at a cure, kidnapped a girl and ignored her wishes just to continue living with a selfish desire and was an exceptionally brutal torturer and bandit would probably deserve some bad karma.
Also, if we're going by the Hero's Journey, the mentor needs to die to provide the motivation and maturation of the protagonist. That's why Obi-Wan or Yinsen or Erskine died when they did.
Even ignoring that, this isn't even the first time a beloved protagonist has died in a sequel or game to make room for a new character . Johnny Klebitz, Arthur Morgan, Edward Kenway say "Hi and where's our outrage". MGS2 was literally made to annoy players who wanted to play as Snake.
Finally, why did Joel die instead of Dina like the trailers implied?
Firstly, trailers always lie. It's a trope for a reason. Marvel in particular knows that. Secondly, it avoids a Fallout 4 by giving the player and Ellie a far more solid reason for getting revenge. In that hypothetical game, Dina would almost certainly not get hours of screen time at most to develop and endear her to the player. But Joel does have that screen time. Making his dead all more brutal is supposed to motivate the player even more.
Now you might be asking "why a revenge story"? And there's no specific answer. You could have done any story. It's not like TLOU1 ended with the setup to a revenge story specifically. But you could make that argument for any story. God of War 2018 didn't need to be a story about Kratos raising a son after moving past his need for revenge (and it initially wasn't) any more than TLOU2 had to be about revenge. In any case, it doesn't conflict with the core ideas. If TLOU1's ending was basically a twisted trolley problem, 2 being the story of what happened after that is a valid premise. The idea of learning from and needing to move past or get corrupted by the situation as interesting.
Many people bring up that if the game starts with Abby and Joel died later, people would be more inclined to take her side. I'd argue against that. The purpose of the game is to make you hate a character initially, and then ask if you have the empathetic capacity to re-examine your position on the character despite the initial introduction via a horrific act on a loved one. Couldn’t have been any other way than they did it
Also, I feel the way Joel took his death was badass. He doesn't try to beg for his life or forgiveness. He drops a simple "save your practiced speech".
-2 The Ending.
A common complaint is that Ellie doesn't kill Abby in the end. Throwing away the whole point of her journey and not succeeding at all while Abby gets away scot free.
I'd argue against this.
Firstly, Plot is not the story. Could you not make the same criticism about TLOU1? "Joel and Ellie spend 15 hours travelling the US to deliver Ellie to make a cure and they don't even make a cure in the end". You wouldn't because the story is about Joel and Ellie's relationship, not the quest to find a cure.
Back to TLOU2, Abby does not get away scot free. She loses her friends, family and has been branded a traitor in Seattle, been tortured and is now taking care of a child. Not exactly a complete victory.
Secondly, if the whole point of the story is that revenge is bad. Shouldn't then the person doing the revenge be punished whIle the person who stops it gets some reward. If Ellie kills Abby, she's kinda going against the theme, and continuing the cycle of violence and revenge. Lev is going to grow up seeking revenge against Ellie and her family or die as unnecessary collateral.
To give an example, imagine you're playing Pokemon, a game who's theme is all about how friendship and training makes you stronger. It would conflict with the point of the story if you lose to the guy who mistreats his pokemon or the guy who didn't train but not to the guy who treated his Pokes better than you did. In the end as the series is about how important friendship and hard work are.
Thirdly, even from an in-universe perspective, the story builds up to it. Ellie is shown to be getting sick from killing people (especially Mel) and was even willing to quit the search early. We see that she feels her trauma will subside if she seeks revenge so she's trying to force herself through it.
!To Quote LordSkreddle who sums it up:
"I think that this is a really humane ending, where they both manage to see the other person as more than the villain of their own story. I think this is why Ellie hesitates in the beggining of the fight, but then forces herself to go through with it, because she thinks that killing Abby will put an end to her traumas. When she is finally at the point where she is in control of the situation, she realises that killing Abby won't do anything. The pain is still there, so she stops it. That final shot at the beach is what really got me. She just sits there so destroyed and disgusted by her own actions, and the realization of the revenge not solving her problems."
-3- Joel's names.
People complain that Joel and Tommy shouldn't have given their names out to Abby's team and that this is a contradition of the characters.
Firstly, the context was that they were all stuck thanks to the Infected, Abby's suggestion that her friends are nearby ends up saving their lives. Is it not expected that the open and outgoing Tommy would show a little courtesy?
Secondly, Even ignoring that, has Joel ever tried to hide his name? He's cool with Henry and Sam knowing his name so soon so why is it a stretch with Abby?
Thirdly, he killed all the Fireflies who knew about him and Ellie. And he's been safe for 4 years in an open community so of course he's going to get more outgoing. From his perspective, he has nothing to worry about and it's not unreasonable.
-4- The Role of Abby.
Ellie, like Joel in the last game, is kinda meant to be the bad guy only cranked up. Abby is meant to be the good guy parallel to Ellie. They have similar names and back stories. I suspect the game wanted us to be horrified at Abby early on, be surprised when we play as her and curious to find out more and then sympathize with her so much so that you may decide to side with her over Ellie.
I suspect the death of Joel so early on caused such a knee jerk reaction from many players that it permanent burned the story in their eyes. I feel that's very childish but regardless, I don't think there's any way to make the story more palpable. Maybe If you start with Abby from the very beginning to get her backstory and motives first ? But then the pacing will be shot, and mystery of uncovering the why of Abby is gone.
As an aside, Abby being swole isn't a plot hole. The WLF are shown to have gyms and expect recruits in top shape. And Abby said she'd dedicated herself to become stronger.
-5- Abby's parentage
Another common complaint is that Abby's dad is "a random NPC who's not important".
Firstly, The surgeon does matter. Many of the people who critique Joel's character point to his brutality there. He's also one of the few characters the player has to kill in a memorable sequence instead of a cutscene.
Secondly, ignoring that and saying that the character was a random NPC, Why does that matter? it is still important to themes of the first game. Stanley openly said in interviews they wanted to make even NPCs feel real so the player would have second thoughts when they were killed. To discount that ignores one of the main ideas of the whole franchise.
Thirdly, ignoring even that, why does it matter if he was a random NPC or not? Joel killed innocent people so it makes sense people would want justice for a mass murderer. If Abby was say, Marlene's niece. Would that magically justify Abby's actions even more despite Joel killing them both? Why does a relation matter?
People have criticized Star Wars for having so much of the conflicts restricted to a handful of families so it feels like nothing happens outside of this. In a realistic world, would it not be more fitting if all kinds of people played a part?
Fourthly, if you're going to do a sequel where the child of a firefly wants revenge on Joel, you don't have a lot of options for the dad. If you pick a bandit of guard prior to Salt Lake, then the connection to the Fireflies is tenous at best. If you pick a guard at Salt Lake, there's a good chance the player bypassed the guard stealthily so never killed them in their playthrough which would hurt the experience. The only candidates then are Marlene, Ethan and the Surgeon who I'd argue is the best choice. Ethan is a simple guard who did mistreat Joel but was killed in a cutscene and is no different from any other guard. Marlene is another memorable candidate but you already have someone who'd be angry about her in particular, Ellie. Marlene is also killed In a cutscene which separates the player from the act. The surgeon is a civilian so killing him feels different from killing a guard. The player also has to kill him in gameplay which makes the act more personal. Finally he's one of the last surgeons left possibly in the entire world. That's a huge loss.
-6- The game is extremely dark and forced.
Yes. This game is very dark. But not as depressive and frequent as people say.
You have segments in Abby's story where the characters chill and play games. You have Jesse and Dina's banter on Ellie's side. The game only cranks up the seriousness during the appropriate sections. While Ellie isn't her jovial self from the last game, given the plot, would that not be out of place here?
People also complain this game forces Ellie to kill a dog and then say the player is bad for doing that. But didn't TLOU do that with the surgeon, that one trapped guy, that bandit? Wasn't Spec Ops The Line built around this whole idea and praised for it? Why is it any different in TLOU2?
-7- The gameplay doesn't match with the story.
Ludonarritive Dissonance. I know it's a tired complaint but I feel it's worth discussing. What's more is I somewhat agree with this criticism
The gameplay has Ellie killing many people who are in the same position as Abby's friends you kill in the story. Yet it's only the latter group that influence her trauma or feelings on the matter. And given that the story is such an integral part of the experience, the game not being so whole does hurt immersion. If it's any consolation, I suppose the player could avoid 99% of combat encounters and just rush through if spotted to minimize the issue.
Honestly, I feel the story would flow better as a TV show than a game.
-8- The Sex scene
Personally, I feel it was too over the top and chessy. I'd rather it be a quick fade to black or something quick like with Dina and Ellie. The point being made is there is a love triangle with Abby, Owen and Mel which mirrors Ellie, Dina and Jesse's situation which is relevant, I guess.
As an aside, is there an actual narrative reason for seeing a sex scene in a story or stories like this? Fight scenes can have a back and forth and a small contained narrative and even characterize the participants. You don't really get that in sex scenes as they're just doing it. Of the top of my head, the only exceptions I can recall was that bit in Shameless where the guy's performance is part of the story. And of all things, 50 Shades of Grey since BDSM (a twisted version of it, anyway) is a major aspect and the audience is supposed to read Ana's experience from it and how it effects her. Anyway, that's not really relevant so moving on.
-9- The Crunch
Yes. This is terrible. I know ND are really committed and perfectionists but crunch these guys faced was not OK. I'd be cool if the game was delayed another 2 years just so the team didn't burn themselves out. I hope they get overtime pay and a big vacation.
-10- Other stuff.
I covered most of the main topics. What's left are just my opinions on less talked about stuff.
I feel the gameplay is an improvement over the first game but still simplistic. I wish there were more options In stealth. The survival horror aspects are very tense and complemented the game well
The world and puzzles are great. Looking for clues and stories in the environment is great.
I like that the trophies are pretty easy to get.
The amount of accessibility options should be the standard in games.
I like the way the game handles Lev and Yara. It shows other factions and people in this world in interesting ways.
So with all that said, what's next for ND? Well first that overtime pay and vacation but then I feel they should make a new Jak game.
It's been long enough from the original games that nostalgia is setting in. The team (or what's left of it) probably needs a pallete clenser after working on TLOU2 for 6 years. Jak's gameplay reimagined with modern design could be cool. Make it a reboot and combine the approach of 1 with 2+3. Obviously this is a very difficult task but I feel confident. The story should probably be a reboot to give team flexibility.
As for the inevitable TLOU 3, I don't really know what direction it can take. Ellie's story is done. The Ending where because she loses her fingers she can't play Joel's song and thus revenge costs her the memory of the guy she's trying to avenge is already fitting. The obvious answer is Abby and Lev going to find the Fireflies but I'm not sold on it. I see the idea is to create a new duo in these 2 reminiscent of Joel and Ellie but TLOU 1 was about these characters growing close to each other and coming your accept each other. Abby and Lev already trust each other. So their game sounds redundant.
Another suggestion is a new Uncharted with Cassie but I feel ND should let Uncharted rest a while longer. Really get the nostalgia for a new Uncharted build first.
So there you have it. My long defence of TLOU2. what do you all think?
I leave you with the following links:
https://youtu.be/bh5gzGs-63Y
https://youtu.be/7sTxmRTlIW8
https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/hcwk19/we_need_to_talk/fvi56t9/
https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/hcwk19/we_need_to_talk/fvi65an/
https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/hczhds/just_completed_the_story_man_what_a_game/fviccrx/
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/hdgktn/my_thoughts_on_the_last_of_us_pt_2_unmarked/fvmhv4l/
https://twitter.com/carpenkinda428/status/1275541264461512705
